Oh dear I am so sorry I was only writing to Dee. I was afraid if I really said what we have figured out that someone else besides Dee would read and then be mad at me. You can write those people that were accused of lying from one site to the other. It was all false just to get rid of them. Beverly was behind the whole thing and I guess Dr. Wisemen just believed her. Those people,Karen, Carolyn Sally, didn't lie about anything. I have had the good fortune of meeting with one of them. Like I told Dee you can make your own choice but the good results are mostly not from people that have surgery in the States but from Germany. The doctor in Germany was said by Dr. Wismen that he was like a snake oil salesman. That told me and my husband what kind of person the owner of the site is. There are people coming back everyweek from Germany and they are well too. I just got a new email last night from another one and she is so happy she said she was going to send all the LIARS a bouquet of flowers! I won't say what she said she is going to send Dr. Wiseman. ha, ha, ha. I am raising funds to and thank the good Lord for the ones helping me so I know all about that. Did you know one woman that went to Dr. Kruschinski was such a messed up shape from so many surgeries in the States that no more doctors here would touch her? She is so sweet and she said Dr. Kruschinski spent nine hours on her and now she is out of bed and going back to work!! That is such good news!! That doctor in Germany is getting so many hard cases. It is sad for him that we are all so gullible we just keep lettting doctors here take out our intestines, colon or whatever they want to. Then like that woman when she didn't get better the doctors here tell her they can't do anymore for her. Anyway Karla those people that were run off from here are working hard helping other people get to Germany. I thankthe good Lord for them. Dr. Wiseman should be ashamed of his letter and for listening to Beverly. Beverly just wants this site for herself and the doctor she likes. Others can contact me if they want information on going to Germany. Another thing to say is none of those ones helping me say we will get a "miracle" if we go to Germany. So you are only helping Dr. Wisemen and Beverly on some of your words here. I am sorry but you said people here need the whole story so I am only saying the whole story. God Bless You, Laynia
>From: ifirgit@yahoo.com (Karla)
>Reply-To: adhesions@adhesions.org
>To: Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS <adhesions@dns.obgyn.net>
>Subject: Re: Lanyia
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:05:24 -0500
>
>Laynia,
>
>I understand why Dr. Wiseman did what he did regarding the Germany
>situation. I have always been a big proponent of Germany and Dr.
>Kruchinski. Everyone seemed to be going there and getting better. At
>least that is the way it was appearing on this board. But, someone
>happened to visit another site and learn that while people were praising
>the work being done in Germany on this site, they were discussing a
>variety of problems that they were having on the other site. They
>weren't giving the people here the entire picture of what was going on.
>That is not to say that you can't go to Germany or that you can't seek
>out that information. But people need to know the whole story and then
>make their choices. Some people borrow money or have fundraisers just
>to be able to go over there, expecting that they will receive that
>"miracle cure". How awful for them to go over there, have their
>surgery, and then discover that it is not as it appears. Of course, not
>everyone may be having problems, but there have been people who found
>success with products like Interceed, Intergel, Seprafilm, etc. But,
>for the most part, they were not successful for those of us on this
>site. It is only fair to the people on this site that they are educated
>all the way around. To only speak of one doctor is certainly doing us
>all a disservice, particularly if we are learning that his success rates
>are no better than the others.
>
>Dr. Wiseman has done us all a service by bringing us all this site. He
>gains nothing from it. The time and energy that go into bringing us all
>the information is endless. To be honest, I was never a Dr. Wiseman
>proponent. But, I had the opportunity to meet the gentleman and see the
>work he does and the amount of effort and care that he puts in to help
>us. My opinion has totally changed. I would walk that extra mile to
>offer my help to him in exchange for what he has given me. Personally,
>I want him on my side, giving me a place to come to and voice my
>concerns, cry when I want to and even allow me to yell at people when I
>find things too negative. He has only our best interests at heart and
>we really need to let up on him.
>
>Over the years there have been many, many caring people on this sight.
>Unfortunately many of them have been chased off by the negativity that
>rears its head repeatedly. For them to leave because he asked them not
>to do something is a shame. The information on Germany is available on
>this sight still. All one has to do is search the archives a little
>bit. You are also free to contact the individuals who have that
>knowledge so that you may also make that trip if you so choose. But, on
>this site we must be totally open and honest. We also must handle
>things with some degree of thought for others on this site whom might
>not be able to seek out that care for one reason or another. I know
>that for myself, as a past proponent of Germany, I would still have
>issues every time I heard of someone going over there. That was because
>I can't. It isn't a matter of money for me, but a matter of it being
>too late for me to seek treatment. So each and every time someone left
>to go over there I felt a sting in my heart just knowing. Yes, I was
>happy for those that were able to go, but I was crying deep inside for
>myself and the battle that I am losing.
>
>Please try to see the other side of the coin and have a little bit of
>understanding.
>
>God Bless,
>Karla
>
> At Wed, 09 Jul 2003, laynia Cortez wrote:
> >
> >Krisite,
> >
> >I was looking for information on Germany and thankfully I have gotten it
>off
> >the board by
> >some very caring individuals!! This should be a place for ALL people,
> >looking for ANY information;
> >why have the ones that do have the information on Germany now not allowed
>to
> >speak freely? What one person sees as "cramming" another sees as a
>"chance"
> >to get real help! Many of us have had it
> >with the treatment here in the United States. We have not gotten help. We
> >all need to back up
> >and quit passing judgment on other people. I have found out the people
> >talking about Germany
> >are gone; forced off by the founder of this site. THAT in my opinion is
>the
> >person that is doing the
> >cramming. Now we are being crammed with only one option again and that is
> >help from doctors here.
> >Some of us do not want any more of that! There was nothing wrong with
>those
> >people telling others
> >where they were helped. I am so very glad I was able to hear from them!
> >Just a different view!
> >
> >Laynia
> >
> >>From: extrafeetmom@yahoo.com (Kristie)
> >>Reply-To: adhesions@adhesions.org
> >>To: Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS <adhesions@dns.obgyn.net>
> >>Subject: Re: Angry????/ hello Karla
> >>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:34:35 -0500
> >>
> >>Karla
> >>I read your post on here and on Bombobeach. And I want to say how sorry
> >>I am your feeling so bad. I am sorry your stuggling a lot and in so
> >>much pain. My life has changed, but not as bad as yours. I do feel
> >>like with meds I can get up and do some normal things. And I should be
> >>greatful for that. And I am. I just hope I at least stay this way or
> >>better.
> >>I think people need to be more sensitive to others in a board. I don't
> >>come in here anymore because this board seems so "clicky" and if you
> >>don't speak pro "Germany"....you really don't belong. That's the way I
> >>felt anyway.
> >>I just wish people would be more understanding.
> >>I want to learn about new procedures....but if I dont do it...I am still
> >>ok and still allowed to learn on here.
> >>We are all human...and have our reasons why we do what we do.
> >>Just love the human race....and be respectful. Don't cram anything down
> >>anyones throat. They may have reason's your not aware of.
> >>We are all in this adhesion thing together.....
> >>I am sorry Karla....
> >>I am sorry your stuggling so much...about your grandson...
> >>Feel free to write me....I'll do my best to see you through hard
> >>times...
> >>
> >>Kristie
> >>extrafeetmom
> >>
> >>At Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Lynn Creacy wrote:
> >> >
> >> >At Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Karla wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>As you know, I haven't been on the board lately because of my
>condition
> >> >>and constant hospitalizations. I have recently spent 3 weeks out of
>the
> >> >>month of June in the hospital and have spent the last couple of days
> >> >>trying to read through postings that I have missed. Do you want to
>know
> >> >>what I have gotten out of all of it? Anger!
> >> >>
> >> >>I must first say that this is not meant to be directed towards
>anyone.
> >> >>It is just my pain and frustrations reaching out. I apologize to
>anyone
> >> >>that this offends. But I have to get this out....
> >> >>
> >> >>Why am I angry? Because, first of all there seems to be so little
> >> >>compassion left on this board and secondly, because it makes me
>sooooo
> >> >>angry right now to hear people going for more surgery, the arguments
> >> >>about the doctors in Germany...and to be perfectly honest, the
> >> >>complaining about the problems that adhesions cause. (Please know
>that
> >> >>I am not saying that you shouldn't do this.....you need to, but I
>just
> >> >>have reached a point where I can't deal with it) My thoughts are "do
> >> >>something about it"! Educate yourself, make wise choices, but do
> >> >>something about it or keep quiet. And I don't mean that..but I feel
>it
> >> >>right now.
> >> >>
> >> >>I am in a very hopeless state right now. I don't want to hear about
> >> >>everyone's aches and pains, because right now I wish that was all I
>had
> >> >>to complain about. Yes, I am very depressed. There are NO answers
>for
> >> >>me. Once more my doctors are reaching out to send me to UCLA, but
>they
> >> >>pretty much know that it is just a shot in the dark. Something to
>try
> >> >>and give me hope. They also know that the end is not far. They are
>now
> >> >>seriously talking about kidney removal...as a measure to extend my
>life
> >> >>a little bit. But, they really don't know why I am having the
>serious
> >> >>problems that I am. I have been to Mayo, University of Wisconsin,
>Lahey
> >> >>Clinic in Boston, Johns Hopkins and the University of Chicago. None
>of
> >> >>them had answers. All of them say I am dying. While I haven't gone
>out
> >> >>to UCLA, I feel that they are just searching for answers because they
> >> >>can't accept their being unable to do anything. I don't know that I
> >> >>want to go! In fact, I know that I don't, but for my family, I will.
> >> >>
> >> >>I have been overweight since I gave birth to my daughter in
> >> >>1978....morbidly obese for the past ten years or so. But, since
>January
> >> >>I have lost close to 100 pounds doing nothing. I feel like I am
>wasting
> >> >>away and my doctors are also concerned. I still have about 30 pounds
>to
> >> >>go before I would be at average weight, but having lost 20 pounds
>during
> >> >>the last two weeks, I could reach that point in a month or so. Each
>day
> >> >>it is a fight to get out of bed, go to the hospital for treatments
>only
> >> >>to return home to bed again. I do get out, but I don't have energy
>for
> >> >>anything anymore. This past weekend of course was the fourth of
>July.
> >>A
> >> >>group that I used to belong to needed some help at the community
> >> >>celebration and I thought that having done it for years I could just
> >> >>fill in for a hour or two. After about ten minutes I realized that I
> >> >>couldn't. Couldn't do things that a few years ago were my life! That
> >> >>makes me ANGRY! I cried!
> >> >>
> >> >>This whole week has been nothing but crying. I feel time slipping.
>I
> >> >>am still mourning the loss of my grandson two years ago, but now the
> >> >>grief goes to losing my daughter, two granddaughters and grandson who
> >> >>truly are my life. I enjoy each minute that I spend with them and I
> >> >>can't imagine leaving them.
> >> >>
> >> >>Then I come here and read about people with pain and I want to reach
>out
> >> >>and help them. To welcome them, give them advise and pray that they
> >> >>make the right decisions. But I get angry, because its just pain. I
> >> >>wish that my life was just pain. When I think about the years when I
> >> >>complained about pain I yearn for them back.
> >> >>
> >> >>So, when I talk about my anger please know that I am not saying that
>you
> >> >>shouldn't come here and complain! Please do! It is your sounding
>board.
> >> >>Listen to each other and have compassion for one another, but most
> >> >>importantly educate each other. We all have busy lives, but please
> >> >>don't stop listening to those who suffer with you. Please don't say
>you
> >> >>don't have time for this group anymore, because you just might miss
>that
> >> >>one person who really needs to hear what you have to say. Please
>don't
> >> >>not participate because you don't like what has been said or how it
>is
> >> >>being said. Dig deep and become a bigger and better person and stay
>and
> >> >>help those who come to this group every day searching for answers.
> >> >>Remember that day when you went searching? You either couldn't find
> >> >>anything because it didn't exist at the time, or you lacked the
> >> >>knowledge that those do who join us each day. If you help one person
>in
> >> >>this group, it is all worth it. If you can help more, God Bless You!
> >> >>
> >> >>Ok, I have had my pity party. Please hear what I am saying!
> >> >>
> >> >>God Bless
> >> >>
> >> >>--
> >> >>Karla
> >> >
> >> >Karla,
> >> >I do not post but I had to when I read your note. Please know that my
> >> >prayers are with you and your family.
> >> >
> >> >Lynn
> >> >>
> >> >--
> >> >A new friend
> >> >
> >>
> >>--
> >>Let's be good to ourselves....Kristie
> >>
>