Re: First time poster - Hello and Questions

From: Mary-Ann Karaganis (
Tue Jan 22 23:59:28 2002

I wanted to jump in here, if that's okay. I had my last child after dealing with painful adhesions for three years. I didn't have any real problems with the pregnancy. I know that it's just one, anecdotal case, but I wanted you to know that it may not affect you during the pregnancy.


>----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Johns" <> To: "Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS" <> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:56 PM Subject: Re: First time poster - Hello and Questions

> Questions for Cathy regarding Kim, Cathy, I'm knew to this site but I
> was reading your response to Kim's questions about fertility. My question
> also to you is : Do you think that being pregnant will cause constant
pain? > I've had two kids, one naturally, the second c-section two years ago.
This > past month I believe that I am suffering from adhesions. I have been
> wondering if it would be wise to try for another baby. I have constant
> daily pain that is mostly bearable, but I have been to the ER 3 times in 6
> weeks for pain. Any ideas for me? Thanks, Julie

>> ----- Original Message -----
> From: cathy:- <>
> To: Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS
<> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 6:19 PM
> Subject: Re: First time poster - Hello and Questions
> > Welcome, Kim -- unfortunately it sounds like you are in the right place!
> > It also sounds like your doctors have told you some very false and/or
> > misleading things..
> >
> > First of all, there are 2 kinds of adhesions that form in the abdomen,
> > endo adhesions and fibrous adhesions. Nobody really knows what causes
> > endo, but the current theory is that there is some mistake in fetal
> > development where some of the cells that are supposed to be inside the
> > uterus, and whose job it is to grow endometrial tissue, somehow end up
> > getting placed outside the uterus. (Almost like if you got a few stray

> > kidney cells in your knee or something.) When you reach puberty these
> > colonies of out-of-place cells bleed and cause irritation to the
> > surrounding tissues. Then there are fibrous adhesions. These are the
> > body's natural response to some sort of injury. A pelvic injury could
> > be from an infection, or from a massive blow to the abdomen (think car
> > crash), or from surgery, or, in fact, from endometriosis. So yes, it is
> > possible to have BOTH endometriosis AND fibrous adhesions. The only way
> > to say definitively that you do have endo is if they send suspicious
> > tissue to the lab and it truly is endo. You can't actually say
> > definitely that you don't have it, though. It's possible that you have
> > it and they just didn't find it. How confident you can be of their
> > negative finding on the endo really depends on the surgeon's skill.
> >
> > Most fibrous adhesions are caused by surgery. The only way to detach an
> > adhesion is to do surgery on it -- in other words to cut it. But doing
> > surgery on it causes a new adhesion to form where you did the surgery.
> > Plus a couple of brand-new adhesions on the path that they used to cut
> > down to the spot. If you are familiar with greek mythology, think of
> > the hydra. This is the mythical beast where if you cut off one head
> > then 2 more heads would grow back in its place. So we come to the
> > misleading part of what your doctors told you. Yes, the moment that
> > they pulled the instruments out of your belly and started sewing you up,
> > you had about 2/3 of the adhesions that you started the surgery with.
> > But the part your docs obviously didn't tell you -- by the time they
> > wheeled you out of the operating room and down the hall to the recovery
> > room you were already sprouting dozens if not hundreds of more
> > adhesions. The general opinion here is that there are 4 surgeons in the
> > entire world who are capable of doing an adhesion operation and that
> > causes fewer adhesions than it cures. And it sounds like the surgeon
> > who told you the part obut the "other 2/3" couldn't have been one of
> > those 4...
> >
> > Adhesions can certainly cause all sorts of gyne problems including
> > infertility. They can pinch your tubes shut so that a fertilized egg
> > can't make it down. They can totally encapsulate an ovary so that no
> > eggs can escape to get fertilized. In fact they "typical" in-vitro
> > fertilization case is a woman with scar tissue. The particular
> > technique with in vitro is they use a needle to get an egg out,
> > fertilize it in a test tube or petri dish ("in vitro" is latin for "in
> > glass") and then deposit the fertilized egg into the uterus. This is an
> > effective way to bypass the scar tissue. But that is actually a last
> > resort -- what they do first is to try to clear the scar tissue via
> > laproscopic microsurgery. I think that Dr Reich (
> > ) (he's one of the 4. The best of them, probably.) has had pretty good
> > success rates with clearing scar tissue well enough so that women can
> > get pregnant without needing IVF.
> >
> > I don't know what your financial/insurance situation is, but I think it
> > would be reasonable at this point to call Dr. Reich and at least get a
> > phone consultation and figure out what your options are. You are
> > absolutely right to worry that your fertility could be ticking away, and
> > to figure out what your options are earlier rather than later...
> >
> > At Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Kim wrote:
> > >
> > >Hi everyone. A few years ago, I had a diagnostic laparoscopy. I
> > >thought I had endometriosis, and my doctors agreed. (Don't get me
> > >started on them missing the diagnosis completely and just putting me on
> > >birth control pills.) After the surgery, I was told that I had
> > >adhesions, not endo, and was told that most likely the adhesions were
> > >from a fallopian tube infection a few years back. Now, I'm only 21 now
> > >and had no surgeries before this, so the adhesions aren't a result of a
> > >surgery. They figure they formed when I was about 16 (when the pain
> > >started). My surgery, at 18 or 19, only reduced my pain a little,
since > > >they could only remove about 1/3 of my adhesions because they're on a
> > >whole lot of parts on my left side (tube, bowels, etc.). After I have
> > >children, I'm told to have laser surgery to remove the other 2/3. My
> > >questions are: Are there any infertility statitics available on
> > >adhesions? And does my risk of infertility rise considerably as I age?
I > > >don't want to wait too long before I have children, anyway, because I'm
> > >dying to get the other 2/3 removed. Also, should I get a second
opinion > > >on whether the adhesions can be removed now? Thanks, and I look forward
> > >to reading and posting here. Kim
> >
> > --
> > cathy :-)
> >

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