-- At Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Karen Steward wrote: > >Robin, > >Please forgive me if I misunderstood your statement; > >> I paid almost 3,000 Euros less & I stayed for 3 weeks >>instead of only 2.............. > >I thought you were saying you paid less and stayed longer >due to surgery, as I was assuming your statement was >reflecting surgery costs/recovery time. > >Also, money is usually always an issue in instances like these, >however, I still say we cannot equate money between surgeons, >techniques, success, etc. > >It isn't my desire to argue, but rather shed light on the recent >post that did cause some confusion between the two surgeons. > >Your statement; >>The gas certainly did not give me more adhesions. > >How can you be sure? Again, I am not arguing, but is there some- >thing that I am missing? Has Dr. Korell stated that CO2 is not a >problem in adhesion formation? I have found on many sites (other >than Dr. Kruschinski's), that it is a known fact that CO2 is a co- >factor in adhesion formation. > >I am not sure any patient is aware of the repercussions surrounding >the use of CO2, as that is the "common" product being used >by most surgeons. I know I was certainly not aware of the effects >CO2 has on the body or that it is a co-factor in adhesion formation >until we found Dr. Kruschinski. In the US surgeries, the ONLY thing >brought to our attention by the performing surgeons concerning CO2 >was "shoulder pain". >Had I known then what I know now, I would have never subjected >my daughter to the risk of more adhesion formation......the very >thing she was going in to have removed. > >Robin, I am only wanting people considering surgery to get all >the information they can get and weigh all the facts before they choose >a surgeon. Helen posted some great information today about choosing >a surgeon. I wholeheartedly agree with you that it is each person's choi e; >at the same time, those of us that have been through the "surgery arena" >with our loved one should open our mouth and SPEAK what we have >learned through our experiences. I know something caused Melissa >to become worse after the two US surgeries she had.............as she ha >gone 13 years living a life of pain with NO surgery. Once she had her >first surgery the problems really began...........within 6 months she had >the >second surgery in the US. Within one month she complained of NEW >pain in areas she hadn't previously had pain! Within 3 months she was so >bloated she could barely walk and her bowels were functioning less! > >I was in a panic to find out what in the world was going on..........the , >she >had a bowel obstruction............it was a nightmare...........severe p in >vomiting, etc........she was rolling in the floor in pain..............t is >incident >led us to book our flight to Germany! > >Looking back I am convinced that SURGERY with the use of CO2 exacerbated >her condition. > >Dr. Kruschinski is offering something we only WISH others were offering, >surgery without CO2. Dr. Kruschinski is adamant that every possible ben fit >for the patient be available to have a successful surgery and to stop al >the risk factors of adhesions re-forming during surgery. He is accomplis ing > >this by using the AbdoLift that he created. He is also active to share t is >exciting >technique with other surgeons...........and as with anything new and >unfamiliar, >other doctors will continue their "learned" methods until the public/pat ent > >becomes aware that there is a more beneficial way (for the PATIENT) to h ve >a successful outcome! In the meantime, patients of Dr. Kruschinski will e >sharing gasless surgery with others, as this can greatly increase their >chances >of coming home truly free from adhesion pain. > >Karen > >-------Original Message------- > >From: adhesions@adhesions.org >Date: Thursday, June 26, 2003 04:43:18 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS >Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Robin/Korell--Kruschinski > >I too went to Germany in severe pain. I had been on Duragesic 75 >patches, MS Contin 60 mg 2 x a day, 15-20 mg of vicodin every 3 hours >sometimes every 2 hours. Just over a month ago, I did not life outside >of my bed. I would try to shower every 3 days, because just getting out >of bed & taking my clothes off put me in more pain. Then I would double >up on my meds & back to bed for days because of the extra pain I was in. >My husband and kids were taking care of me. My adhesions started with a >c section in 1983. My first surgery was Aug, 1985. >If money was not an issue, then this site would not be used because >everyone here would have already had surgery in Germany. Also, my >husband & I would not have had to file bankruptcy last year because of >all the DRs I went to & the tests & procedures and the pain medications. >I sold most of my beloved cat and frog collection to make this trip. I >would have sold all of them to make it there. I am not sure if my >family could have come up with almost $3,500 more. I think that DR >Korell is offering a less expensive way to go. The gas certainly did >not give me more adhesions. Dr Korell does tons of adhesion surgeries, >he is an expert! He is producessing adhesion free patients. Most of >those patients are in Germany and some even have traveled from Frankfurt >especially for him to do their surgeries. > >-- > >I personally thought this was not needed!!!!! I chose how long to be >there, he never told me I needed to be there for 3 weeks. My first >surgery, I left the hospital the next day, pain free even though I was >on some meds, it was because the meds I was on had to be decreased >slowly. My 2nd look surgery I left that day. I am now only on 15 mg of >MS Contin for another 9 days, then I get to lower it to one pill a day >and then none. Getting off such strong pain meds have to be done >slowly. In fact as I talked to my husband every day, he kept telling me >to take more meds to help with the withdrawl symptoms, but I have always >been too determined to get off meds too soon for my own good. >..We had less time in Germany, (quicker recovery?) >>and I see that as a blessing as we were able to return to our family >>sooner!!!!!!!!!!!! > >I also had a friend there that I wanted to be able to spend time with. I >also wanted to be as comfortable as possible for my over 12 hour flight >alone. I also was then facing a 6 hour car ride all the way to my home. >While I was there, after my surgeries on Tuesdays, I went site seeing, >walking so much that my feet hurt. I can't remember the last time I >walked so much, or shopped so much or even felt like shopping. I spent >1 1/2 hours yesterday at Wal Mart with my daughter. I wanted to hop, >skip, run & jump!! I cant remember the last time I spent 5 mins there, >but I know I was in a motorized cart, and this time, I was walking!!!! >Money was an issue for me, yes, that is a shame, but It is the truth >when I say if we had to come up with more money, I would not be adhesion >free today!!! >robin > >At Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Karen Steward wrote: >> >>Robin, >> Thanks so much for taking the time to fill out the study form! >>I hope others from both Dr. Korell and Dr. Kruschinski will >>take the time to fill it out. >> Melissa will be filling out the form also..........however, I have >>to get her to slow down long enough to do it....but will post it for >>others to see.......Melissa arrived in Germany in pain as most of >>you know........she was advised to take pain meds with her as we >>were told the pain medication in Germany was different. >> >>Melissa, even though she was always ill, did not take much pain >>medication. She tried to always get by on OTC's............. >> >>For the trip to Germany, she took RX's of Oxycontin and Percocet >>with her that she had left from the California surgery (which left her >>wracked with pain for 8-12 weeks)........... >> >>Melissa was surprised and relieved to find that she needed very >>little pain medication after surgery with Dr. Kruschinski using the >>AbdoLift. She said, "I am sore, but not in pain----this is tolerable." >>She only used the suppositories that Dr. Kruschinski provided, >>(and he had to insist she use those).............as she told me, "if >>it doesn't go in by mouth, it doesn't go in"............... >> >>It wasn't until surgery with Dr. Kruschinski that we learned so much >>about CO2 and the harm it does to the body............we mistakenly >>thought the "pain" after surgery in Texas and California was from the >>surgery itself. In Germany Melissa did not experience the same type >>of pain she had in the previous surgeries in the States. Now, we know >>that much of the pain she had in the States was due to CO2!! Her >>recovery time was much faster and when we left Germany on the >>22nd, Melissa was on no pain meds at all. >> >>I would also like to confirm the years of experience of Dr. Korell, >>as you have stated 25 years experience in each post. I do not know >>the years of experience Dr. Kruschinski has, as I never asked. >>I only knew he was turning out well patients with quick recovery time. >>That was all I needed to know. If that is important to some people >>maybe we should add that information to our study...................... >> >>For myself, years upon years do not carry any merit......I only want >>to hear results! >> >>Melissa's first surgeon stated he had 37 years of surgery experience. >>She was no better after her surgery with him........he was a wonderful >>person, >>and though he had many years of experience, it was of no benefit >>to Melissa. So, all in all, I learned that years of experience is not w t >>counts when it comes to getting well............. >> >>I have nothing against Dr. Korell, just as you say you have nothing >>against Dr. Kruschinski................I only want people reading the >>board that are in pain to consider each posting. In the states, we >>have all been like cattle led to water, but there is nothing to drink!! >> >>It would be a disservice to anyone considering surgery to make the >>wrong choice in surgeons, especially when making a decision to >>travel to Germany............thus, the reason for my post. >> >>And once again, you bring up money...............however, we cannot >>base what one doctor charges against another, as they are operating >>out of different hospitals, providing different surgery techniques, and >>providing different accommodations for the patients. Therefore they hav >>different expenses. >>Bringing dollars into the equation is not in the best interest of the >>patient >>or the surgeon. There is no way to "price comparison" >>quick recovery, no cell death, OR extraordinary success results! >>We had less time in Germany, (quicker recovery?) >>and I see that as a blessing as we were able to return to our family >>sooner!!!!!!!!!!!! >>So Dr. Kruschinski may have more expenses to cover, but the patient is >>at MUCH lower risk in all areas. >> >>And this is my opinion and our experience!! >> >>Thanks Robin, >> >>Karen >> >>-------Original Message------- >> >>From: adhesions@adhesions.org >>Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 07:03:08 PM >>To: Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS >>Subject: Re: Robin/Korell--Kruschinski >> >>Dear Karen, >>I filled out the study form. I am taking pain meds so that I can slowly >>decrease them. I was on > Duragesic 75 patch, 60 mg 2 x day Morphing >>(MS Contin), 15-20 mg of codine every 3 hours, Ibuprofin 800, equgesic, >>Paxil & Buspar (anti depressants that should help with pain) Temazapam >>for sleep. (That doesn't count the meds I tried that did not work for >>me) >>NOW I am on 15 mg Morphine for 2 weeks, then 1 pill a day for 2 weeks, >>then off them totally. Using 5 mg codine to help with any withdrawl >>symptoms. Before surgery, even with a sleep pill, I was waking several >>times a night, now it is so much better. >>I do need to say that DR Korell has 25 years experience with removing >>adhesions. I paid almost 3,000 Euros less & I stayed for 3 weeks >>instead of only 2. I have nothing against Dr Kruschinski, I do not know >>any thing really about him. It is a decission that each person needs to >>make based on their situation. I do not know many of the names of >>people that have been to DR Korell. But I do know he has had success >>with more than with me, using the spray gel. >>I wish you luck with your study, >>love & prayers to all, >>robin M >> >>-- >> >>>My name:_Robin Massengill___My Surgeon:__DR Korell___ >>> >>>Pain before surgery (scale 0 -10): 10 >>>Pain after surgery (scale (0-10):2 >>>How much pain meds were you on prior to surgery: >> >>C>What were the pain medications prior to surgery: >>> Duragesic 75 patch, 60 mg 2 x day Morphing (MS Contin), 15-20 mg of co >ine >>every 3 hours, Ibuprofin 800, equgesic, Paxil & Buspar (anti depressant >>that should help with pain) Temazapam for sleep >> >>>How much pain med were you on after your surgery: >> >>>What were the pain medications after your surgery: >>>30 mg 2x day of Morphine & 5to 10 mg Vicodin >> >>>Activity level prior to surgery (scale 0-10):0 >>>Activity level after surgery (scale 0-10):7 >>> >>>How many adhesion surgeries have you had in the US? 6 >>>How many adhesion surgeries have you had in Germany? 2 (and 2, 2nd loo ) >>> >>>Have you had more than one surgery (excl. second look) with Dr. Korell? >yes >> >>>If so, why? In Nov 2000, he was using Intergel. It did not keep the >>adhesions from returning. >>> >>>Have you had more than one surgery (excl. second look) with Dr. >>>Kruschinski? >>>If so, why? >>> >>>Have you had any surgeries CONNECTED to adhesions after >>>adhesion surgery with Dr. Korell, in Germany or the US: >>>If so, please state reason (give doctors' name if you like) >>> >>>Have you had any surgeries CONNECTED to adhesions after >>>adhesion surgery with Dr. Kruschinski, in Germany or the US: >>>If so, please state reason (give doctors' name if you like) >> >>At Wed, 25 Jun 2003, Karen Steward wrote: >>> >>> Robin, >>> >>>Thanks for the response to my questions concerning Dr. Korell. I do th >>>there needs to be clarification between the two German doctor's and th >>>techniques being used. >>> >>>Many postings have been made concerning Dr. Kruschinski and the >>>success that patients are achieving through his surgery techniques. >>>Your recent post about Dr. Korell has confused some patients. I have >>>received personal letters regarding the two surgeons. >>> >>>I believe it is only in the best interest of ARD sufferers to know all e >>>facts >>>before making a decision concerning such an important surgery! We must >>>make a unified effort to bring complete clarification between the two >>>surgeons! I firmly believe we would both be doing a disservice to the >>>suffering patient if we do not state facts, techniques, & results >>>between Dr. Kruschinski and Dr. Korell. >>> >>>I am thrilled for your successful surgery with Dr. Korell............t is >>>the >>>same story we are wanting others to hear! You did mention pain >>>medications, waiting to see if you are free of adhesion pain and costs ou >>>stated that Dr. Korell is not as expensive as Dr. Kruschinski. We must t >>>allow a dollar bill to come between success stories being posted on th >>>site.................Although the cost may be more or less from one do r >>>to >>>another, we would not want money to sway a patient considering going t >>>Germany because of cost differences, as these are two very different, >>>unique individuals, using two very different techniques, different >>>hospitals, different facilities, etc..........the two doctor's would >>>obviously >>>have different expenses! >>> >>>We would all agree if we are making such a drastic step to fly to Germ , >>>we want the BEST possible outcome of that endeavor! >>> >>>Patients must KNOW!! >>> >>> Dr. Kruschinski uses SprayGel, but no CO2 (gas). >>> >>>Dr. Korell uses Spraygel and gas (CO2). >>> >>>I would love everyone that has been to Germany to begin postings >>>answers to the following questions and let's do a comparison: >>> >>>My name:____________My Surgeon:_____________ >>> >>>Pain before surgery (scale 0 -10): >>>Pain after surgery (scale (0-10): >>>How much pain meds were you on prior to surgery: >>>What were the pain medications prior to surgery: >>> >>>How much pain med were you on after your surgery: >>>What were the pain medications after your surgery: >>> >>>Activity level prior to surgery (scale 0-10): >>>Activity level after surgery (scale 0-10): >>> >>>How many adhesion surgeries have you had in the US? >>>How many adhesion surgeries have you had in Germany? >>> >>>Have you had more than one surgery (excl. second look) with Dr. Korell >>>If so, why? >>> >>>Have you had more than one surgery (excl. second look) with Dr. >>>Kruschinski? >>>If so, why? >>> >>>Have you had any surgeries CONNECTED to adhesions after >>>adhesion surgery with Dr. Korell, in Germany or the US: >>>If so, please state reason (give doctors' name if you like) >>> >>>Have you had any surgeries CONNECTED to adhesions after >>>adhesion surgery with Dr. Kruschinski, in Germany or the US: >>>If so, please state reason (give doctors' name if you like) >>> >>>I would love to collect the data between surgeons. Robin, since you ar he >>>only one I currently know that has been to Dr. Korell, it would be har or >>>me to collect the data......do you know of others we could get data fr >>>Would you help gather data for this important study? >>> >>>Thanks a lot, >>> >>>Karen >>> >>>. >> >>. >> >. > .